The Lessons Learned and the Policy Report repay download and reading. It's not a pretty picture, and expensive natural gas seemed only to make the electrolysis less economic.
Also worth watching is PosHYdon - which has now had to be bailed out by the Dutch government, although they are putting plenty of spin on that. It is supposed to run only when a particular wind farm is operating. But they are a long way behind, and now want to test the systems onshore first!
Yes, that REFHYNE report was interesting... all that for 10 MW, but lots of lessons learned like the ultra-pure water requirement for non-metallic piping.
PosHYdon is an example of exactly what not to do. Make expensive hydrogen much more expensive by siting it offshore, and also increase the risks of operating an offshore platform by generating hydrogen on it. But only a little bit, 1 MW-worth. At least the Luchterduinen Wind Farm that will feed it has total *capacity* 129 MW, so even when the wind is very low that would hopefully keep the little electrolyser running.
What do you think of using wet cycle combustion of metal powder to produce hydrogen instead? I make super cheap aluminium powder in Australia, send it to Japan to be used for hydrogen production in ammonia plants. The aluminium oxide produced can be recycled again. That's surely more sensible than transporting hydrogen from Australia to Japan.
I don't think in my posts I ever suggested there was *anything* sensible in the idea of transporting H2 from Aus to Japan. Occasionally on LinkedIn I've seen posts gushing enthusiastically about the idea... I think the energy losses and likely fugitive H2 emissions make it a non-starter if looked at rationally.
The idea of making "super cheap" aluminium in Aus using surplus 'renewable' power and then exporting that Al for local Japan H2 production is superficially attractive. But I read from a 2008 US Gov research paper: "Aluminum Required: 9 kg Al per kg H2 assuming 100% yield"
That seems a lot.
The same paper states: "Cost: $7 per kg H2 (based on the cost of electricity for aluminum production considering only the reduction of alumina to aluminum step)"
That also seems a lot.
So I guess it comes down to exactly what your "super cheap" Al means in the context of all the other supply chain and production costs.
I understand it's not viable at the moment nor did I claim that.
My assumptions are as follows -
1) Solar electricity will be cheaper than fossil fuels based heat energy in 10-15 years.
2) This will create demand for electrification of energy intensive processes and also demand for electro fuels.
3) There will be demand for an electro fuel that can act as a globally traded commodity.
4) Hydrogen as you mentioned is difficult to store and transport globally.
Currently the price of fossil fuel based hydrogen is roughly USD 2/kg. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that solar power will make electricity 3.5 times cheaper than 2008 electricity prices.
Always worth remembering Shell's REFHYNE project at Wesseling refinery.
https://www.refhyne.eu/publications/
The Lessons Learned and the Policy Report repay download and reading. It's not a pretty picture, and expensive natural gas seemed only to make the electrolysis less economic.
Also worth watching is PosHYdon - which has now had to be bailed out by the Dutch government, although they are putting plenty of spin on that. It is supposed to run only when a particular wind farm is operating. But they are a long way behind, and now want to test the systems onshore first!
https://poshydon.com/en/dutch-state-joins-offshore-green-hydrogen-pilot-poshydon-via-ebn/
Thank you again, Idau.
Yes, that REFHYNE report was interesting... all that for 10 MW, but lots of lessons learned like the ultra-pure water requirement for non-metallic piping.
PosHYdon is an example of exactly what not to do. Make expensive hydrogen much more expensive by siting it offshore, and also increase the risks of operating an offshore platform by generating hydrogen on it. But only a little bit, 1 MW-worth. At least the Luchterduinen Wind Farm that will feed it has total *capacity* 129 MW, so even when the wind is very low that would hopefully keep the little electrolyser running.
What do you think of using wet cycle combustion of metal powder to produce hydrogen instead? I make super cheap aluminium powder in Australia, send it to Japan to be used for hydrogen production in ammonia plants. The aluminium oxide produced can be recycled again. That's surely more sensible than transporting hydrogen from Australia to Japan.
Thank you for your comments, Md Nadim Ahmed.
I don't think in my posts I ever suggested there was *anything* sensible in the idea of transporting H2 from Aus to Japan. Occasionally on LinkedIn I've seen posts gushing enthusiastically about the idea... I think the energy losses and likely fugitive H2 emissions make it a non-starter if looked at rationally.
The idea of making "super cheap" aluminium in Aus using surplus 'renewable' power and then exporting that Al for local Japan H2 production is superficially attractive. But I read from a 2008 US Gov research paper: "Aluminum Required: 9 kg Al per kg H2 assuming 100% yield"
That seems a lot.
The same paper states: "Cost: $7 per kg H2 (based on the cost of electricity for aluminum production considering only the reduction of alumina to aluminum step)"
That also seems a lot.
So I guess it comes down to exactly what your "super cheap" Al means in the context of all the other supply chain and production costs.
I understand it's not viable at the moment nor did I claim that.
My assumptions are as follows -
1) Solar electricity will be cheaper than fossil fuels based heat energy in 10-15 years.
2) This will create demand for electrification of energy intensive processes and also demand for electro fuels.
3) There will be demand for an electro fuel that can act as a globally traded commodity.
4) Hydrogen as you mentioned is difficult to store and transport globally.
Currently the price of fossil fuel based hydrogen is roughly USD 2/kg. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that solar power will make electricity 3.5 times cheaper than 2008 electricity prices.
Does my plan seem too far fetched to you?